as a musician who used oink as a prototypical distrobution method i have to say that it is a big loss, my band ports of call is about to release our first album this december, but while we’re waiting to have it pressed our guitar player put it up on oink…this lead to a bunch of blogs making note of various songs, some that we had available on myspace and other we didn’t, ultimatly getting more people interested in the record, so i have to say that for those who decry this whole pirating thing as the satanic spawn of a newt or whatever, it can and has helped many artists to either expand their reach or even begin to get a foot hold. ps. thanks for digging the track on skatterbrain dave

that last one was definitely Lars Ulrich.

“Downloading is never going to cannibalize CD sales”

Come on… there’s a million and one studies which show direct linkages between the two!

Thanks, man. I’m just trying to help.

So wait.

In this world of illegal beer-sharing, what happens if you get comped at a bar?

Can you then be sued for depriving the beer industry of a potential sale?

I need to know these things.

yeah, i’m with anonymous up there right above me. I only download independent stuff because i don’t like what the majors are putting out.

THAT MAKES IT OKAY BECAUSE THEY’RE INDEPENDENT AND YOU LITERALLY CAN’T FIND THEM IN STORES!

Since they’re not part of the major label system it doesn’t matter if you steal them anyway, they just wanna be heard, they’re not in it to get any money at all. DON’T YOU PEOPLE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MUSICIANS! They hate money and paying bills, they just wanna rock out for you so you can hear it and feel good. That’s ALL THE PAYMENT THEY WANT OR DESERVE.

Duh, guys. Duh.

FACT: I went to the car dealer the other day, and test drove a few cars. And by test drive I mean drove them to my house and parked them in my garage. But dudes, i TOTALLY buy cars sometimes, like I’m a huge car fan and a car buyer.

FACT: i think it is UP TO ME as a music consumer to determine just how a band MAKES THEIR MONEY. Like, i don’t want them making money from CD sales. They should only make money from tours and merch that I don’t buy.

FACT: with this, and that calvin harris post you have proved yourself to be an amazing, next-level dickhead.

I’d like to extend that challenge to anyone here who says that OINK was the best and or anyone who has trash talked on Matthew, Maura or anyone else who has spoken out against Dave whining like an entitled little baby.

Let’s see the truth.

“Do you think that just because the internet breaks SOME artists and that illegal downloading is so common, that it makes it ok for YOU to decide whether, when, or how much money a musician should make for their art?”

Regardless of how Dave or anyone else would answer this question, it’s an irrelevant point. File sharing isn’t going anywhere. As many as hundreds of millions of people worldwide do it and less than 20,000 of them have been sued (with only one case actually going to trial). The way of thinking has changed for many people and it’s only going to continue to do so. You can dismiss illegal downloaders as thieves all you want, but the fact that so many people do it says a lot about the mindset – more and more people view music as something that you acquire a lot of and don’t necessarily spend money on. You want to morally judge that? Fine, it’s your right. But you’re going to argue in circles with people, because putting morality into file sharing is as irrational as saying that God exists because you can’t prove he doesn’t.

If you honestly think that shutting down OiNK and other torrent sites is going to curb file sharing and bring things back to the way they used to be, with people buying millions of CDs, you’re more naive than someone who thinks it is their right to get free music.

That era is never coming back, and arguing about the rights and wrongs about file sharing isn’t going to change that. At some point, something has to give – and it’s looking more and more like that “something” is going to be at least one of the major labels filing for bankruptcy or even folding within the next decade…maybe even five years, if things continue as they have.

” “recordings are no longer something that’s going to be effectively monetized”…so it’s ok that you steal them? to reflect the broken system? does that really make sense to you?”

Anyone who downloads music “to reflect a broken system” is a moron. If you’re acquiring music to prove a point, you probably don’t even listen to music to begin with. I understand that you have an overly inflated sense of right and wrong in your ivory tower, but if you want an example of WHY recordings can no longer be effectively monetized, think about this for a second.

Let’s say you buy one of those new 160 gig iPods. And, let’s say that you’re a pure individual who never, ever downloads anything and never has in his or her life (yeah, right). If you were legitimately buying albums off of iTunes, do you know how much money it would cost you to fill up that iPod?

Over $32,000. THIRTY TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS. Or, the price of a BMW 3 series, an average teacher’s salary in the US, and the price of a medical bill for someone who cut off a finger (without health insurance, of course). You’re probably sitting there saying, “Oh come on, who even fills up an iPod that big?”

Someone must be. They keep getting bigger and bigger. Lest we forget that 5 years ago, when a 30 gig iPod came out, it was considered massive and unwieldy. Now? It’s suddenly small. Every time Apple brings out a bigger iPod, it’s like they’re daring consumers to fill them up. “Hey, bet you can’t fill up 160 gigs!” “Oh yeah?” says the college student with a T1 connection, “Watch this!”

Apple is making bigger iPods because the market dictates it. It’s what people want – more and more storage space. Why? Because they’re downloading more and more music and need somewhere to put all of it. Sure, iPods store video now. But how much of THAT do you think is legitimate (probably even less than the music, but that’s a whole other story)? And I guarantee you they aren’t filling the iPods up legitimately. So really, can music be effectively monetized when a music player/storage device is being sold that is designed to hold thousands upon thousands of albums? Yeah, maybe if each album cost a penny.

You want to curb illegal downloading? Sue Apple for increasing iPod sizes at a staggering rate. Have fun with that.

“For that matter, does referring to “the music industry” as one massive unified entity make sense to you? REALLY?”

For one thing, when Dave refers to “the music industry,” I’m pretty sure he’s referring to the major labels.

And based on how they’ve acted the past decade, using the RIAA as their attack dog, I don’t see how you COULDN’T refer to “the music industry” as one massive, unified entity.

I can’t understand why you don’t just use eMusic. It may not have every record ever put out in the history of time (or certain labels) (or pre-release leaks), but there’s an unbelievable amount of stuff on there available for LEGAL download. So baffled.

Let me throw some things into the mix.

1. The big named artists make absolutely absurd amounts of money. Many people work harder than them and they struggle through life.

2. The music industry charges too much for shitty products. Even at 99cents per song. That BS. Ill listen to a song a few times and get bored and move on. $15 for a CD is crap too. 90% of songs on cds are crap and no one listens to them.

3. The music industry and indie artists would make MUCH more money if they sold a song for like 1 cent. Many of their fans dont have money to spend hundreds of dollars on music.

4. Oink provided quality, download speed, and collection that is not found in any pay site. If there was a REAL alternative i can see people really coming down on oink. But oink was just simple supply and demand.

5. The big record labels are greedy but thats their job. They are corporations that have responsibility to produce profits for their shareholders. It is a shame that art is so mixed up with money.

6. I tried other music services. They did not compare to oink. Oink was so lite. Barely any programs to download. No computer slow down. It was simply paradise.

7. I agree that the riia is doing a terrible mistake when suing its own customers.

8. There are literally hundreds of ways to get illegal music. People sell it on the street, there are still massive p2p networks in operation. Hundreds of bit torrent communities. MIRC. Myspace. Google searching. It is sad that the illegal version of the business provides a much better service than the legal versions.

9. You can search google for torrent files JUST like u can search oink.

10. I definetly see the other perspective… that it IS similar to stealing. Although the loss is not direct because u are not actually taking something someone directly misses. It is stealing sales. Big name artists are overpaid so i do not regret that. I think it is unfair for britney spears to have all that money for example when people are starving. I think the big name artists should be paid like 500,000 per album. TOPS. They should get paid like a decent lawyer gets paid And even that may be too much.

What i feel bad about is smaller artists who are not rich will be negatively affected by sharing. Basically my point is, if they sold it cheaper, they would make more money because the volume would be much higher.

thanks for you sharing !!good post! 
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